
I interviewed Mark Gluth about his astonishing new novel The Late Work of Margaret Kroftis, which is available now from Akashic/Little House on the Bowery.
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OK, so I know it’s an obvious question to start with, but I wanted to ask just for a little bit of biography about you. Where about are you based? How long have you thought of yourself as a writer? What stuff have you had published prior to your novel? Usually I think that these kinds of questions can seem a little lazy but seeing as this is your first novel I guess that sort of information isn’t really there to be Googled at the moment. Plus, I’m nosey. So far I know that you live with your wife and cats and that you’re vegan.
Yeah, my wife, Erin Kelly, and I live in Bellingham, Washington. It’s a college town up in the upper left corner of the map. We have 3 dogs but no cats. Yeah we’re vegans – for ethical reasons. I know I wanted to be a writer as far back as I remember, probably because books were always really valued in my house. Like my parents would always buy me a book if I wanted it despite money being- I realize in retrospect- tight. Previously published? Not much really. I had a section of my novel in Userlands. Up until the novel I’d never really written very much I was happy with. I had vague plans to write a novel when I graduated from college but I kind of waited 8 years to get started. I think I spent a ton of time learning to write by just thinking about it and not writing at all. And then I learned a ton more while writing the book. I’ve written some journalism: mainly record reviews for Thefanzine.com and I really enjoy that but that’s a whole different type of writing with a whole different type of thinking going into it, I mean compared to fiction.
How long has the book been in the works? It’s very short but it feels like it’s been chipped at remarkably, I mean there’s a tightness to the prose that’s really quite something. It feels like something that has taken quite a while to get into this shape. When did you start it and when did you finish it? Did you start off intending to write a novel?
Um, I just checked and the earliest version I have of the first writing I saved on the computer is dated 8/03 and I finished it around mid-year 08. The way it started was that I had written a couple stories since 2000 and I liked them and I thought I wanted to write a novel but I had no idea how to write something over 5 pages long. I guess yeah, I just kept chipping at it. I like what you said, that it felt like it took a while. I like art like that. It made me think of Kubrick's movies. They have this purity he got from all those takes. I dunno, I write really consistently but slowly. I think I averaged under 20 pages a year. I wonder how that compares to a Kubrick film.
Following on from that: I’m interested in hearing about how you actually start off your writing process. Do you have a lot of stuff in place before you start the actual writing? I’m talking in terms of ideas, or perhaps more formal stuff – plans about how you want the piece to be structured or anything like that … Just from how tight and economically worded your prose is, I get the impression that a lot of work and thinking was done before hand. Could you talk a little about that please?
At the start I had a few elements of the book and I just experimented with them a lot, thinking of ways to connect them, which over time lead to more and more elements, which made everything more and more complex. Early in I nailed the structure that everything hangs from and then it was just a matter of nailing each sentence and paragraph along the way. I say ‘just’ but that’s like a joke. I edit a ton because writing does not really come to me with ease, that’s probably where the tightness comes from. All I know is I do it from feel. When a paragraph feels good to me, then I know I’m done. So long as it meets the structural and narrative requirements it needs to move the story forward. I write each paragraph as a whole. I see them as short stories. And I just keep playing with them intuitively until they work for me.
I’ve been trying to work out why I think this, but I can’t quite get it into words at the moment, so I’ll just say it without any qualifiers: for some reason the book feels a little French to me. There’s something about it that makes me think of certain writers, maybe a little Marguerite Duras or someone like that, or a certain style of writing perhaps. It has something to do with this strange distance between the text and the things that it’s describing. I mean that in the nicest way, of course. It has these really lush gaps where the reader can really get caught up in and washed around in. I guess that is probably due to the whole subject of daydreams and streams of consciousness. But yeah – that was all just a very convoluted way of me asking what sort of other writers influenced you, if there were any that you consciously used as reference points?
Yeah I got really into some French writers working on the book It’s neat that that somehow translated into my book and double neat that you caught that. My fave writer of all time is Agota Kristof who is Hungarian but writes in French, I also really love Marie Redonnet who is French. I discovered Claude Simon and I really love Alain Robbe-Grillet too. I only read English, so I’m stuck reading translations. What I like about these writers’ work is that their books are really smart, really intellectually rigorous on one end but that they also work at a gut level. I think that distance you talk about is something most evident in Redonnet's books. But I never ever tried to understand how she was doing it, but if you see it there, I'm honoured. Having said that I’m not particularly informed about French Literature or anything. I just kind of stumble onto stuff. As far writers that influenced me…well there's everyone above plus Joan Didion, Dennis Cooper, Derek McCormack, Arthur C Clarke, Cormac Mcarthy, Jerzy Kosinski, Jorge Luis Borges, John Le Carre, Bret Easton Ellis. I like writers who care about language. Writers that don’t get lazy. I hate when I’m reading a book and suddenly I hit a flabby paragraph, or a sentence that feels like it was written by rote.
It’s hard to put my finger on exactly but yeah, there’s something about the distance that you’ve created that reminded me of translations of French books that I’ve read. Off the top of my head the first thing that I can come up with is the idea of restraint. Because I guess obviously somebody translating a book has to work with some pretty strict restraints on their hand – they have to block out any urge to go too far beyond the text that they’re working with, whilst at the same time they have to try and get across whatever emotional stuff might be working between the lines, the stuff that exists above where the language is operating. I wonder if the tightness that you try and impose upon your work has something to do with creating that similar sort of distance. Maybe by reigning a lot of stuff in it creates this whole other emotional aspect that is implied inherently through its lack of illustration. Or something. Actually it brings to mind one of my favourite lines from early on in your novel, when you write: ‘J’s in bed then at his desk. He fills a dozen pages with pen drawings. Each line is whatever, the spaces are what makes them compelling.'
It's funny, I was playing with distance a lot in that chapter but I just always played around until I found something that felt intuitively right. There are more characters in it, more that share the spotlight so I thought about the voice like a camera- that it zooms in and out, and pans to different characters at different time. So distance is the thing with that right? And distance is only like one element of whatever equation it occurs in right? I mean there's both a separation between the text and the character/action but I also wanted it to work to bring the reader closer in to the character. What I mean is the sentence pulls back with regards to detail, but at the same time I hoped on some level that the narration was actually zooming in on him, that the vagueness or whatever was how he saw it in that moment. But overall maybe whatever distance you see, and similarity to translated fiction ,comes from what I like, what I find aesthetically pleasing, which is also fed by the fact that I read a fair amount of translated stuff.
Something that jumps out at me after reading your novel is that it very much felt like there were some conscious efforts made to take cues from other mediums aside from writing. I know that you’ve spoken a little bit about some of the ideas that: you based on stuff from video games like Zelda – that helped with the way that you considered your use of narrative, right? Also, something that I’ve enjoyed talking to you about in the past is music: I know that it influences your writing, and I was wondering if you might expand on that a little bit. Are there any definite ways that you feel that the music you listen to forms what you write? Do you listen to music while you write? Do you use it to put yourself in a particular mood for writing, or do you take any structural cues from it. Just an aside, it’d also be cool to hear a current playlist from you, the stuff you’ve been listening to a lot recently.
Well I don’t have the kind of brain where I can easily translate an influence into a piece of writing. I usually have feelings that are triggered by stuff I admire, and then I try to incorporate those feelings into my writing. Usually my feelings for something I like are too intense for me to concentrate on so I kind of think around them, and see what shadows they cast and stuff. Early on in the book I got really into looking at whatever structure I was contemplating, and reassembling it as something else....so like what if it was a mobile, or a sculpture or a flow chart instead of a novel? It was that kind of thinking that lead to the overall plot of the book. Zelda, yeah, I love how those games repeat the same structure over and over, but how instead of it being some lame money making sequel thing, that Nintendo created this overall narrative structure where it makes sense for that to be happening. That totally influenced the book. Yeah I totally listen to music while writing. I can write w/o it but I don’t like to. It's a mood thing, but it also gives me something to zone out on. I make these huge playlists. The one for my novel in progress is ridiculous, like 18 hours long. Sometimes I'll hear a line in a song and suddenly something about my book will become very clear, so in a sense it's like a good drug. So, music I'm into right now? I really love Grouper, she's from Portland and her music is amazing and perfect to me, I like black metal, at least abstractly. I'm trying to capture what I find compelling about it in the book I'm writing now. I think Xasthur and Wolves in the Throne Room are the best of the lot. I really like Marmoset, Former Ghosts, Sunset Rubdown, and Destroyer and..er..a ton I can't think of right now. I like sad acoustic music like Boduf Songs, Califone. That kind of Americana stuff probably really influenced some of the rural stuff in the book.
I can relate to that. Music has often played a big part for me or been a pivotal inspiration for my writing, too. I love your idea of a song helping you make sense of your own writing – it brings to mind the idea that the work and the writing already exists in some way, and your role is to shine a torch on it or feel it out in the dark almost. I want to ask you a little bit more about your interest in black metal (I think it’s on my mind a little bit today because I was reading about the new Burzum album). What is it about that style of music that you find so compelling? I’m a fan of a lot of that stuff as well, but I sometimes have quite contradicting views about it. Also – and I don’t know if this is just because we’ve spoken about music in emails past and therefore I already knew that you were into black metal bands – but I sensed that some of that translated into your novel a little bit. The way that you gave such gorgeous descriptions of woodlands, trees, damp ground, misty and foggy views of the sea and stuff like that – for whatever reason I related that stuff with the imagery used by a lot of black metal bands and the sorts of things they might use in their artwork.
As far as black metal, well I'm really into some of it, mainly stuff on the outskirts of the main wave of black metal, like the suicidal depressive stuff, Xasthur or Burzum for example. And I'm torn on it like you. First off I find it aesthetically pleasing. The best stuff sounds totally gutted. From the song writing to the production it just feels like the photo negative of other music, to me. But the best stuff kinda transcends all the gimmicks and superficial stuff and is just really pure and amazing. It also has all these contradictions that make it complex. I see good black metal as being a testament to its own failure. Anyway- the alienation between the individual and the world...all that I love. I even see the pagan stuff as an iteration of that. I think it's kind of telling how a lot of black metal is so willing to replace one system of control-Christianity with another- paganism or what have you, so the stuff I really like tends to transgress that pagan stuff into abstract despondence like Xasthur or the Earth First! stuff that Wolves in the Throne Room kinda came from. What I hate, and this is where I'm torn: is that a lot of these bands and musicians- Xasthur included, flirt with fascism, which as an anarchist is anathema to me. I read an interview somewhere where Malfeic was like well, fascism has plusses and minuses. That's just totally fucking bullshit, denialist crap, but again it's part of Black Metals failure- how so much of it is an expression of outrage over the strong dominating the weak, about an individual impotently facing the world, but at the same time they are willing to replace one form of domination with another.
As far as TLWOMK, actually I'd say there's close to zero amount of Black Metal influence in it. Sorry. I didn't get into black Metal till after I was done with it. I think a lot of the stuff you point to is just description of where I live. It's very foggy a lot and while I live on the coast, I can turn around and see the North Cascade mountain range. In the summer it looks like a can of Bush beer and in the winter it looks like a Black Metal album. Anyway, my new book, the one I'm writing now...in it I'm trying to incorporate a lot of Black Metal stuff, particularly suicidal black metal like Xasthur. The first chapter is named after a song by Leviathan. I'm trying to translate the feeling I get listening to suicidal black metal and stuff and incorporate at it into my fiction. So there's not like guys in corpse paint or anything, it's more tangential, the characters just feel totally fucked in it.
OK, so I’m interested in the ‘narrative and structural requirements’ that you mentioned. So long as you wouldn’t feel like a magician being asked to explain how he performed a certain trick, I was hoping you could expand on that a little bit or give a couple of examples perhaps …
Oh, please don’t picture me coherently experimenting with stuff. It's usually just that I have daydreams where I try to connect all these disparate narrative strands. I'll have 3 pieces of writing let’s say, and then just think about them and try to connect them into something coherent and compelling. 99% of the time I fail, but once I find a way through then there's certain things that need to happen to connect those pieces. So as far as writing the book, I figured out all that stuff early on. In each chapter there are only a couple things that need to happen- and they are big things, like a character needs to die or a character needs to write something. I mean those requirements are just the bare minimum required to move the narrative forward. I have less of it planned out in my new book. I understand the shape of the story I'm going for, but I have less signposts mapped out. It scares me a little, but it also feels exciting.































































